Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:49 pm Post subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 13:11, Olle E. Johansson wrote:
Quote:
I don't think a list of VoIP providers can be kept current and it should not be part of
a manual, nor does a list of Asterisk consultants (including myself) fit into a handbook.
I think there should be links to existing lists, on the Wiki and on Digium website.
I've been thinking about this, and tend to agree. The original
intention of the book was to create a user manual which was a complete
reference of how to configure Asterisk. I realize there are examples of
how to connect to the various providers, but I feel that this is more of
a support issue with the individual provider, and not something that the
manual should be concerned about.
I think the original idea and intension was a noble one, but I feel that
the book may become used as a commercial for the more well known
providers. It may not start out like that, but it could eventually come
into that.
This is something we should resolve this week. I don't want to
discourage anyone from contributing, but a whole chapter dedicated to
other providers may be seen as a commercial to someone just scanning
through the book, when it is meant to be a desktop reference for
someone.
Perhaps something like an Appendix in the back of the book with links to
various commercial and individual consultants would be a better idea.
Each company or individual could have a small paragraph to describe
their company, and what they do / provide.
This is simply a suggestion on my part. I would like to hear everyones
opinion before we change anything. Even if it's a simple "yay" or "nay"
for whether we should keep chapter 5.
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:59 pm Post subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working
I like this idea...
We could even give a example of how to connect to a few of the
providers. If its in the Appendix, this should all be fine.
--Greg
On 21 Dec 2003 18:49:48 -0500, Leif Madsen wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 13:11, Olle E. Johansson wrote:
> I don't think a list of VoIP providers can be kept current and it should not be part of
> a manual, nor does a list of Asterisk consultants (including myself) fit into a handbook.
> I think there should be links to existing lists, on the Wiki and on Digium website.
I've been thinking about this, and tend to agree. The original
intention of the book was to create a user manual which was a complete
reference of how to configure Asterisk. I realize there are examples of
how to connect to the various providers, but I feel that this is more of
a support issue with the individual provider, and not something that the
manual should be concerned about.
I think the original idea and intension was a noble one, but I feel that
the book may become used as a commercial for the more well known
providers. It may not start out like that, but it could eventually come
into that.
This is something we should resolve this week. I don't want to
discourage anyone from contributing, but a whole chapter dedicated to
other providers may be seen as a commercial to someone just scanning
through the book, when it is meant to be a desktop reference for
someone.
Perhaps something like an Appendix in the back of the book with links to
various commercial and individual consultants would be a better idea.
Each company or individual could have a small paragraph to describe
their company, and what they do / provide.
This is simply a suggestion on my part. I would like to hear everyones
opinion before we change anything. Even if it's a simple "yay" or "nay"
for whether we should keep chapter 5.
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:01 am Post subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working
Let's forget about project for Docs ... we have Wiki more then enough
.same logic. It looks like nobody is reading my postings...
Why we compare Providers and Consultants here guys??? Two absolutely
different things...
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-doc-admin@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-doc-admin@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Leif Madsen
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 6:50 PM
To: asterisk-doc@lists.digium.com
Subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working on
what? Chapter 5
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 13:11, Olle E. Johansson wrote:
Quote:
I don't think a list of VoIP providers can be kept current and it
should not be part of
Quote:
a manual, nor does a list of Asterisk consultants (including myself)
fit into a handbook.
Quote:
I think there should be links to existing lists, on the Wiki and on
Digium website.
I've been thinking about this, and tend to agree. The original
intention of the book was to create a user manual which was a complete
reference of how to configure Asterisk. I realize there are examples of
how to connect to the various providers, but I feel that this is more of
a support issue with the individual provider, and not something that the
manual should be concerned about.
I think the original idea and intension was a noble one, but I feel that
the book may become used as a commercial for the more well known
providers. It may not start out like that, but it could eventually come
into that.
This is something we should resolve this week. I don't want to
discourage anyone from contributing, but a whole chapter dedicated to
other providers may be seen as a commercial to someone just scanning
through the book, when it is meant to be a desktop reference for
someone.
Perhaps something like an Appendix in the back of the book with links to
various commercial and individual consultants would be a better idea.
Each company or individual could have a small paragraph to describe
their company, and what they do / provide.
This is simply a suggestion on my part. I would like to hear everyones
opinion before we change anything. Even if it's a simple "yay" or "nay"
for whether we should keep chapter 5.
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:23 am Post subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 19:01, Alexander Kandelaki wrote:
Quote:
Let's forget about project for Docs ... we have Wiki more then enough
.same logic. It looks like nobody is reading my postings...
Why we compare Providers and Consultants here guys??? Two absolutely
different things...
I read your posting. I've read them all. I just happened to disagree
with you :)
I don't think the document is a place for providers to be advertising.
As much as your intentions are to help tell the user about different
services and how to set them up, in the end, it is an advertisement.
First, if the point is to tell the user about providers and consultants,
then why can't they simple be listed in an appendix, or linked to a
website which can be updated much easier than a document (what if
someone happens to have a copy of the book from 6 months, or a year
ago?) If you have a link to a website, it will (can) always be current
as opposed to a "published" document.
Second, I don't think Asterisk and Providers go "hand in hand".
Personally I use Asterisk at home, and have never even thought about
using a provider for anything at this point. If I just want a book to
tell me how to set up my Asterisk box, I may not appreciate a chapter of
advertisement of the more prominent service providers in the middle of
the book. This seems like something that should be more of an Appendix
type of thing if included at all.
I agree with Olle that this type of thing can be difficult to keep
maintained, and would rather focus more work on the other chapters.
Even though the book is "dynamic" from a certain point of view, once it
is done, then it will become more static.
My other concern is that with the growing number of providers and
contractors that are servicing and selling Asterisk that the chapter
could dwarf the rest of the book. Which is why I am more in favour of
an appendix rather than a full chapter (especially in the middle of the
book).
Again, simply my suggestion, we all have equal say in this.
Thanks,
--
Leif Madsen <leif@hacklocalhost.com>
http://www.hacklocalhost.com
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:34 am Post subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working
No problem. I agree about advertisement, this is why I raised this
question in discussion with Blitzrage. My idea was to have mostly
technical issues to be covered in section for providers, not
advertisement of anykind.
Whatever, let's wait on others to make final decision.
I have no problems with it.
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-doc-admin@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-doc-admin@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Leif Madsen
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 7:24 PM
To: asterisk-doc@lists.digium.com
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's
workingon what? Chapter 5
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 19:01, Alexander Kandelaki wrote:
Quote:
Let's forget about project for Docs ... we have Wiki more then enough
.same logic. It looks like nobody is reading my postings...
Why we compare Providers and Consultants here guys??? Two absolutely
different things...
I read your posting. I've read them all. I just happened to disagree
with you :)
I don't think the document is a place for providers to be advertising.
As much as your intentions are to help tell the user about different
services and how to set them up, in the end, it is an advertisement.
First, if the point is to tell the user about providers and consultants,
then why can't they simple be listed in an appendix, or linked to a
website which can be updated much easier than a document (what if
someone happens to have a copy of the book from 6 months, or a year
ago?) If you have a link to a website, it will (can) always be current
as opposed to a "published" document.
Second, I don't think Asterisk and Providers go "hand in hand".
Personally I use Asterisk at home, and have never even thought about
using a provider for anything at this point. If I just want a book to
tell me how to set up my Asterisk box, I may not appreciate a chapter of
advertisement of the more prominent service providers in the middle of
the book. This seems like something that should be more of an Appendix
type of thing if included at all.
I agree with Olle that this type of thing can be difficult to keep
maintained, and would rather focus more work on the other chapters.
Even though the book is "dynamic" from a certain point of view, once it
is done, then it will become more static.
My other concern is that with the growing number of providers and
contractors that are servicing and selling Asterisk that the chapter
could dwarf the rest of the book. Which is why I am more in favour of
an appendix rather than a full chapter (especially in the middle of the
book).
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:40 am Post subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 19:34, Alexander Kandelaki wrote:
Quote:
No problem. I agree about advertisement, this is why I raised this
question in discussion with Blitzrage. My idea was to have mostly
technical issues to be covered in section for providers, not
advertisement of anykind.
Whatever, let's wait on others to make final decision.
I have no problems with it.
I am blitzrage :)
And I wasn't going to make any decision until we hear from others.
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:58 am Post subject: [Asterisk-doc] Should We Keep Chapter 5? was: Who's working
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 17:23, Leif Madsen wrote:
Quote:
I don't think the document is a place for providers to be advertising.
As much as your intentions are to help tell the user about different
services and how to set them up, in the end, it is an advertisement.
I disagree... Just because we show people how to connect to FWD (or
IAXTEL or SendJaredSmithMoneyToMakeCheapCalls), doesn't mean we're
advertising for it. (Heck... half of the VoIP providers listed aren't
commercial anyway!) I have no problems whatsoever putting in a section
dedicated to connecting Asterisk to common VoIP providers. While the
information in the book won't always be up-to-date, and may not cover
*every* provider, I still think it's a valuable thing to have in the
book.
If you've spent as much time as I have on the Asterisk mailing lists and
in the IRC channel, you'll realize that "How do I connect Asterisk to
provider FOO" is probably the second most commonly asked question.
As for a list of consultants, that *definitely shouldn't* be in the
book. We can certainly point readers to a website that provides a list
of consultants, considering that 1) someone makes that website and 2)
that website is neutral.
Quote:
First, if the point is to tell the user about providers and consultants,
then why can't they simple be listed in an appendix, or linked to a
website which can be updated much easier than a document (what if
someone happens to have a copy of the book from 6 months, or a year
ago?) If you have a link to a website, it will (can) always be current
as opposed to a "published" document.
Two comments. There's nothing that stops us from putting information
about connecting to VoIP providers in *BOTH* places... Have a note in
the book that says "This information is current as of Dec 2003. For
more up-to-date information on connection to VoIP providers, go to
http://asteriskdocs.org/someURLhere.
Also, because this "book" is going to be freely available in electronic
format, and constantly updated (hopefully!), I'm not so concerned about
it being full of information from "a year ago". Yes, print versions
will become outdated, but so what. That's why they print second
editions. And third editions. And if the publishers don't want to
print a new edition, it's no big deal... get the PDF and print it
yourself.
Quote:
Second, I don't think Asterisk and Providers go "hand in hand".
Personally I use Asterisk at home, and have never even thought about
using a provider for anything at this point. If I just want a book to
tell me how to set up my Asterisk box, I may not appreciate a chapter of
advertisement of the more prominent service providers in the middle of
the book. This seems like something that should be more of an Appendix
type of thing if included at all.
They might not go "hand in hand" for you, and I can say from personal
exprience that I've never used one. But I still think that a large
majority of Asterisk users, especially new users, will want to connect
Asterisk to some kind of VoIP provider, if for nothing else that to try
it out.
Quote:
I agree with Olle that this type of thing can be difficult to keep
maintained, and would rather focus more work on the other chapters.
Even though the book is "dynamic" from a certain point of view, once it
is done, then it will become more static.
My other concern is that with the growing number of providers and
contractors that are servicing and selling Asterisk that the chapter
could dwarf the rest of the book. Which is why I am more in favour of
an appendix rather than a full chapter (especially in the middle of the
book).
What's worse? A large chapter, or a large appendix? Again, I don't
expect this [chapter|appendix] to cover *ALL* possible VoIP providers
and configurations. I imagined it would cover the most common ones. It
should give new users just enough to get started. If this
[chapter|appendix] gets to be bigger than 20 pages, then I'll find
something to axe!
Quote:
Again, simply my suggestion, we all have equal say in this.
Thanks,
Me too! Again, just because I helped start this whole project doesn't
mean I'm right or that I have the final say... Let's argue the pros and
cons and then make a decision that's the best for the project. I'd
rather go against my own judgment and do what's best for the book and
Asterisk than bear my ego and say "I'm right!".
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